K1NGM4S1V_4th_GUARDS_DIV 119 Report post Posted May 9, 2022 Although primarliy observation and recon was primary role the OV-1D did have the ability to carry various ordiance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Target1331 3,054 Report post Posted May 9, 2022 At first, I was like, it is a model so might just be fictional ... I stand corrected, apparently Israel used 2 of these for a while and one of them is now flying in the US (albeit back in US colors). However, currently doubt it will come into the game any time soon (if at all), due to its meager performance. Then again, we did see the FMA I.A.58 Pucara lingering in the files. Best regards, Phil Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K1NGM4S1V_4th_GUARDS_DIV 119 Report post Posted May 10, 2022 Could be useful CAS but if we ever get scouting ability for aircraft planes as the Storche, O-1 Bird Dog, OV-1D Mohawk, OV-10 Bronco, A-37 Dragonfly just to name a few could be cool additions. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K1NGM4S1V_4th_GUARDS_DIV 119 Report post Posted May 10, 2022 Heres a great close up look at the Mohawk Sadly this aircraft and pilot were lost in 2019. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oom1992 649 Report post Posted May 10, 2022 I just found this tread from Passed for Consideration, guess Grumman OV-1 Mohawk add both USA & Israel late rank IV in attack line Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suggestion Moderator yoyolast 1,708 Report post Posted May 10, 2022 Hmmm, I don't remeber seeing any records showing Israel armed these but I could check sometime. An interesting find either way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suggestion Moderator yoyolast 1,708 Report post Posted May 11, 2022 Yeah I checked, these things that you might be mistaking for bombs are actually drop tanks. I haven't found any indication of it carrying armaments in Israeli service. Sorry to burst the bubble regarding this one, it is a cool aircraft indeed, but it simply won't work for this tech tree. Source: https://user-1723486.cld.bz/ntsyqlvpdyh-yp-t11/854/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K1NGM4S1V_4th_GUARDS_DIV 119 Report post Posted May 17, 2022 (edited) Yes, I am aware of what “drop tanks” are partner. Haha I am a two combat tour vet. And g ranted the IAF probably used the Mohawk in primary surveillance roles, but I'm sure you already know, the IAF armed 90% of their aircraft and wanted any and all able aircraft to have the abilities to provide CAS with the exception of only a few airframes, Hence as you can see in the picture of one the IAF Mohawk pics you linked that i have circled in red, they still had the ordnance pylons mounted just outside the "Dry" drop tank. Pylons are easily removed so their presence would suggest they were not for just looks. Like I said, the OV-1 Mohawks were primarily used for Recon/Surveillance roles. And as you mentioned documentation of how it actually was utilized with the IAF can only be speculated. But, yes it absolutely could and did carry ordinance. Along with “drop tanks”. These drop tanks by the way were carried in both dry and wet form. N otice that the dry drop tanks differ from wet by being slightly more bulky and not having such a tappered tail section. The “Drys”were hollow with paneling that could be filled with drop supplies for ground units. Or the “Wets” would be primarily used for fuel, extending loitering time. The SLAR (Side Looking Airborne Radar) pod, which is easily identified as the long rectangle pod protruding could identify units under heavy foliages. And then direct fire control for air strike packages or artillery. The OV-1 Mohawk had six underwing pylons capable of carrying fuel tanks, 500-pound bombs, 2.75-inch rockets or Zuni missile packs MK82s, MK83s. etc... Intresting note, One OV-1E even was retrofitted with the M230 chain gun. You may recognize the m230 30mm from the chin of an Apache. I hope this info is of value to anyone who is interested in learning more about one of the more rare airframes used by any country. I feel it could be a welcomed addition for the current voids in the IAF tree and as always in the USA tree. YAO-1 (YOV-1A) 9 initial prototypes OV-1A (AO-1AF) 64 daylight observation variant OV-1B (AO-1BF) 101 SLAR variant OV-1C (AO-1CF) 169 IR reconnaissance variant OV-1D 37 82 consolidated sensor variant JOV-1A - 59? OV-1As & OV-1Cs fitted with armament RV-1C - 2 Quick Look ELINT machines RV-1D - 31 Quick Look II ELINT machine OV-1E - 1 proto for unproduced modernized variant Edited May 17, 2022 by IDF_14th_Machatz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suggestion Moderator yoyolast 1,708 Report post Posted May 17, 2022 4 hours ago, IDF_14th_Machatz said: Yes, I am aware of what “drop tanks” are partner. Haha I am a two combat tour vet. And g ranted the IAF probably used the Mohawk in primary surveillance roles, but I'm sure you already know, the IAF armed 90% of their aircraft and wanted any and all able aircraft to have the abilities to provide CAS with the exception of only a few airframes, Hence as you can see in the picture of one the IAF Mohawk pics you linked that i have circled in red, they still had the ordnance pylons mounted just outside the "Dry" drop tank. Pylons are easily removed so their presence would suggest they were not for just looks. Like I said, the OV-1 Mohawks were primarily used for Recon/Surveillance roles. And as you mentioned documentation of how it actually was utilized with the IAF can only be speculated. But, yes it absolutely could and did carry ordinance. Along with “drop tanks”. These drop tanks by the way were carried in both dry and wet form. N otice that the dry drop tanks differ from wet by being slightly more bulky and not having such a tappered tail section. The “Drys”were hollow with paneling that could be filled with drop supplies for ground units. Or the “Wets” would be primarily used for fuel, extending loitering time. The SLAR (Side Looking Airborne Radar) pod, which is easily identified as the long rectangle pod protruding could identify units under heavy foliages. And then direct fire control for air strike packages or artillery. The OV-1 Mohawk had six underwing pylons capable of carrying fuel tanks, 500-pound bombs, 2.75-inch rockets or Zuni missile packs MK82s, MK83s. etc... Intresting note, One OV-1E even was retrofitted with the M230 chain gun. You may recognize the m230 30mm from the chin of an Apache. I hope this info is of value to anyone who is interested in learning more about one of the more rare airframes used by any country. I feel it could be a welcomed addition for the current voids in the IAF tree and as always in the USA tree. YAO-1 (YOV-1A) 9 initial prototypes OV-1A (AO-1AF) 64 daylight observation variant OV-1B (AO-1BF) 101 SLAR variant OV-1C (AO-1CF) 169 IR reconnaissance variant OV-1D 37 82 consolidated sensor variant JOV-1A - 59? OV-1As & OV-1Cs fitted with armament RV-1C - 2 Quick Look ELINT machines RV-1D - 31 Quick Look II ELINT machine OV-1E - 1 proto for unproduced modernized variant Again, the issue here is that there is no solid proof that IAF airframes actually carried ordenance. I'm not debating the functional capability of the aircraft which is obviously compatible with armaments, I'm debating the historical capability. Because there isn't any proof (apart from pylons but that's likely just due to how the airframe was built regardless of it's use) that armaments were used in IAF service, it would make it fictional for this aircraft to be represented this way, and I'm personally against these sorts of inclusions (at least not while other solid inclusion possibilities still exist). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K1NGM4S1V_4th_GUARDS_DIV 119 Report post Posted May 17, 2022 (edited) Yes, I agree completely about the addition of fakes, as in paper platforms and or fake load outs. But in WT there have been rules bent from time to time. Being the fact that ground crews took on an average only 1 hour to add and remove weapon point pylons and the fact that pictures exist with both IAF Mohawks with and without their pylons it would stand to reason that the pylons were actively been used. It wouldnt be a far stretch to assume as per IAF CAS doctrine that thier Mohawks were also armed from time to time. But, I understand how the DEVs look at this. The French tech tree F-100 only just recently recieved its CAS loadout, and that was after the information was provided to the DEVs. If you read below just how guarded the subject was as the US Air Force did not want it common knowledge that the Army was arming their Mohawks. Even though they were. And were in fact credited with downing a Mig-17 in proper WT unguided spray and pray rocket salvo. More interesting info: The Mohawk had originally been designed to carry a light warload, and the US Army didn't see any reason not to make use of the capability in Vietnam. The Army had Grumman refit a number of OV-1As (including two of the YOV-1A prototypes) and OV-1Cs with all six stores pylons and install a Mark 20 fixed reticule gunsight in the cockpit for the pilot. These modified aircraft were redesignated "JOV-1A" and "JOV-1C". In principle, they could carry: XM14 (SUU-12) 12.7-millimeter (0.50-caliber) Browning machine gun pods with 750 rounds each. XM18 (SUU-11) 7.62-millimeter (0.30-caliber) General Electric six-barreled "Minigun" Gatling gun pods with 1,500 rounds each. XM13 40-millimeter automatic grenade launcher pods. 7-round LAU-32/A or 19-round LAU-3/A 70-millimeter (2.75-inch) rocket pods. 4-round LAU-10/A 127-millimeter (5-inch) Zuni rocket pods. 113-kilogram (250-pound) Mark 81, 225-kilogram (500-pound) Mark 82, or 450-kilogram (1,000-pound) Mark 83 general-purpose bombs. 450-kilogram (1,000-pound) Mark 79 napalm tanks. Sidewinder air-to-air missiles. Other stores included flares pods, smoke generators, and the M4A supply container. It is unclear if all these stores were actually qualified, and unlikely that all of them were actually carried in service. It is particularly hard to believe Sidewinders were ever carried operationally, or that the Army even had them in inventory. The actual number of JOV-1A/C conversions is unclear: some sources hint that a number of Mohawks were converted to an armed configuration and not redesignated, and that the JOV-1A/C designation was only given to armed machines with dual controls. A total of 59 JOV-1A/Cs is cited but is a bit untrustworthy. Air Force brass saw the JOV-1A/C as an Army attempt to perform the close-support mission, which they insisted was their job and objected loudly. The Army formally changed the name back to OV-1A/C, though they did not remove the pylons or the gunsight. Many of these aircraft would serve in Vietnam, often carrying smoke rockets, plus sometimes more lethal stores for "self-defense". The Air Force remained very touchy about the issue, even demanding that Grumman get rid of company brochures that highlighted the Mohawk's attack capability. In 1965, the Pentagon handed down a directive dictating that the Army would not operate armed fixed-wing aircraft. The Mohawk's agility, ability to fly low, and its relatively quiet turboprop engines allowed it to sneak up on the enemy unannounced, and the enemy is said to have referred to it as the "Whispering Death" -- though that sounds like marketing hype. Its combat survivability was very good, and its reliability and maintainability were outstanding, with the highest availability rate of any Army aircraft. The Mohawk's lack of serious offensive armament was troublesome to field commanders, however, because in many cases the Mohawks found concentrations of enemy troops who would be gone by the time strikes could be called in. The field commanders argued at length against the Air Force restriction on armed Army fixed-wing aircraft, but got nowhere. In many cases, the Mohawks were armed anyway, presumably with 70-millimeter unguided rocket pods, a common store on Army helicopter gunships. In 1966, one Mohawk reputedly shot down a North Vietnamese MiG-17 fighter with unguided rockets. The North Vietnamese pilot made a pass at one of a pair of Mohawks, the other loosed a salvo of rockets at the fighter, and to the surprise of all, managed to hit the MiG. However, one Mohawk was shot down by a North Vietnamese MiG in 1969, evening the score. This was the only Army fixed-wing aircraft loss in air-to-air combat during the war. Edited May 17, 2022 by IDF_14th_Machatz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K1NGM4S1V_4th_GUARDS_DIV 119 Report post Posted May 17, 2022 (edited) This is the two Mohawk airframes that were recieved by Isreal. OV-1D #69-17021, Tail number 022, 4X-JRA, 122 squadron OV-1D #68-16993, Tail number 056, 4X-JRB, 122 squadron Last known status One plane caught fire in its cockpit in 1981 and soon after the two planes were removed from service and later ended up back in the USA. (68-16993) went out of service in May 1996 and it's now on display at the AIR ZOO in Kalamazoo, MI. USA (69-17021) went out of service also in May 1991 and it's on display at the American Wings Air Museum at Blaine, MN. USA Edited May 17, 2022 by IDF_14th_Machatz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
