What is GMC?
-
Obviously we all know what a GMC (Grabowsky Motor Company) is these days, but all throughout the 20th century their models paralleled Chevy's to a tee. For every Chevy truck there was an equivalent GMC with few cosmetic changes, formerly quad headlights before falling into identicality through the '80s and '90s with more differentiation happening nowadays.
My question is just how a 'luxury' truck division developed in this way and why it seems like the only one to ever be successful? It seems like truly an American phenomenon that this near-identical rebadged brand continues to exist today by simply standing in as a 'Ghia' or 'Vignale' version of a Chevy truck.
What's weird is that they used to be more commercial oriented, the only brand GM outwardly used on products like their RTS buses or the famous FWD six-wheeled motorhome.
But then on products like the Express and Savana I really can't see a technical reason to differentiate them at all:
I guess the reason there is because of the long-standing tradition of split dealerships like GMC-Pontiac to Chevrolet-Oldsmobile, etc. where you might only have one or the other in rural areas. So does the departure of that legacy nowadays mean that GMC is allowed to go upmarket?
That introduces the problem of Buick who occupy the same 'just above Chevy' niche in GM nowadays, though I suppose the main difference between Buick and GMC is largely one of gender and/or design preference.
Back to the Chevy and GMC topic at hand and it's clear that the continued success of GMC today is no doubt buoyed by longstanding loyalty and a positive rebranding of GMC as upscale. Ford tried and failed miserably by making a Lincoln truck because it didn't have the commercial reputation that GMC does, much like Cadillac doesn't. So then my question is could it work elsewhere?
I could have sworn when I was in Hong Kong that I saw a Toyota Vellfire wearing Hino badges, but unfortunately I wasn't smart enough to snap a picture. That got me thinking though, would Hino have the range to rebrand upwards like GMC? Take the above rebadged Coaster as a Hino Liesse for example. What if Toyota started selling its luxury vans and SUVs through Hino like a Hino Vellfire, Hino Land Cruiser, or Hino Hiace?
Likewise VW's new Crafter being rebadged by MAN Trucks as the TGE thus giving it more commercial and industrial cred. Why don't they do a MAN TGE California camper?
And for all its pointlessness, I'm sad the Freightliner Sprinter is gone. It went the other direction downmarket as a little brother to their Cascadia and M2 series trucks and felt decently rugged compared to the flashier Merc.
So what do you think? Are there any other brands that could pull off rebranding their truck division as an upscale one for SUVs and CUVs? Or is the GMC phenomenon a uniquely American proposition that grew out of our deep-seated dealer networks and buyers' habits?
As an afterthought, I'm still salty that of the heritage GM brands GMC and Buick survived while Pontiac and Oldsmobile didn't. Pontiac's sporty bent was genuinely interesting and unique, and I'm of the opinion Oldsmobile in its heyday occupied a deeply cerebral 'engineering-first' niche in the same way Lancia or Citroën did with their early turbocharged cars and FWD innovations.
GMC and Buick feel very staid and safe to me, both being lightly nicer Chevies with little in the way of identity or brand philosophy these days, but I guess their business appeal lies in being able to sell nearly the same car to twice the audience.
-
@amoore100 said in What is GMC?:
Grabowsky Motor Company
Today I learned I made up it standing for "General Motors Commercial." Wow.
But, it's the formerly down market General Motors brand for commercial vehicles as to not sully the reputation of, IDK, Buick? Weird how everyone is fine with Chevy selling rebadged Isuzu box trucks and the Corvette at the same time.
-
@WhoIsTheLeader said in What is GMC?:
Weird how everyone is fine with Chevy selling rebadged Isuzu box trucks and the Corvette at the same time.
Meh, most mainstream brands can get away with that shit. Toyota sells everything from the Coaster to the Supra, VW sells the Constellation in South America alongside the Polo, and even Renault with the Alpine and Magnum existing at the same time back in the '80s and '90s.
-
@amoore100 You are right that GMC is a bit of an outlier in being the down-market commercial brand AND the upmarket, ruggedly fashionable truckish crossover brand without really being known for the bit of the market between the extremes.
-
@amoore100 GMCs market position (at least for non-commercial vehicles) comes from blue collar jobsite culture. Just like any other profession there's a hierarchy but if the foreman shows up in a Jag it's gonna get vandalized. He needs a vehicle that blends in, belongs there, shows he's just like the guys, but still flaunts his status. Enter: the upmarket pickup truck.
Meanwhile GMC SUVs are mostly driven by military wives who demand to be referred to as their husband's rank.
-
@WhoIsTheLeader said in What is GMC?:
a bit of an outlier in being the down-market commercial brand
But see, was it ever downmarket? I figure Chevy was the downmarket small truck brand, then in heavier segments GMC was the token 'pioneering' truck brand with FWD RVs and futuristic buses. I guess my point is that they somehow managed to steer that professionalism ('We Are Professional Grade') into the public appeal of their now mainstream consumer products. Besides, Chevy used to have semis, too.
-
@WhoIsTheLeader GMC was formed in 1911 from the merger of two prior General Motors divisions, Rapid Motor Vehicle, founded 1902, acquired by GM in 1909, and Reliance Automobile Manufacturing, founded 1904 and acquired 1909. Rapid and Reliance combined to become "General Motors Truck Company", but still used either the Rapid or Reliance badges until 1912, when the GMC name started to be used. General Motors Truck Co was reorganized as "GMC Truck & Coach Division" in 1943, then as simply "GMC Division" in 1998.
The bit about Grabowsky is because Rapid Motor Vehicle Company was founded by the brothers Max & Morris Grabowsky, however, they both resigned from Rapid and cashed out their shares in 1908, after General Motors bought a minority stake, but before GM took full ownership, and several years before Rapid was merged into GMC. The "G" in "GMC" has never stood for "Grabowsky", it's just sort of a funny coincidence
-
@ranwhenparked I kind of figured as much considering Graboswky is hardly mentioned at all, but it was too funny to pass up.
-
@amoore100
Bear in mind that Hino is currently in a merger situation with Daimler Trucks....and the new Crafter is also (I think) the next Transit. -
@SilentbutnotreallyDeadly Wow, I wonder how much Toyota is still going to be involved afterwards. As for the Crafter, that would be wild since we in the U.S. get it as well. Perhaps the Tourneo will become VW-based and they'll do a USDM-only full-size Transit?
-
@amoore100
I'm not sure how strong the VW Commercial & Ford hookup is but it has spawned the Amarok/Ranger and whatever the Caddy/Transit Connect will be. The Transporter and Transit Custom was another mooted matchup. And the Crafter/Transit. However, I suspect that the transition to EV has buggered all that.Toyota now has a bit of a share in Daimler Trucks...what they do with it (#hydrogen) is anyone's guess.
-
@amoore100 GMC needs to be retired. should've happened back in '09 when GM went tits up.
-
@amoore100 tldr but did you know GMC made a sprint in 1971? It was a high option El Camino, up to a 454 SS level of options.
-
Cadillac has no commercial reputation, you say?
The irony here is that they used 1/2-ton truck chassis parts. So Cadillac's commercial cred is built on GMC.
I loved my '70 Cad-Superior hearse, but damn, 6 mpg got old quick.
-
@amoore100 I do think a big part of why GMC has continued to succeed after the downfall of the other legacy GM brands and the combining of dealerships and whatnot, has been their styling. The pick-up trucks, which are their bread and butter, and very uniquely styled and have been since the GMT-800. When I bought my new '06 Sierra, there was no way in hell I was spending money on one of them ugly ass cat eye Silverados. If you look at the current trucks, the GMC looks WAY better than the Silverado. Which is easy to do, because Chevy managed to churn out their most hideous truck ever. One of the ugliest trucks of all time.
What other brands could pull this off? I don't think any could. It's a unique set of circumstances that brought GMC to where it is.
-
@pip-bip said in What is GMC?:
@amoore100 GMC needs to be retired. should've happened back in '09 when GM went tits up.
I'll bet they make boat loads of cash from it though. It's puzzling that it works, but no one is debating that it works.
-
The Freightliner Sprinter, IIRC, was a deliberate attempt by Mercedes to simply rebadge the truck during the era when Mercedes was trying so so so hard to be taken seriously as "luxury only" in the US (not the worldwide "reliable taxi and work van" reputation). I think there was initially a chicken tax element to it, where the near-completed vans were sent to Freightliner and Dodge for final assembly. It's too early for my Google-Fu
GMC to me, today, is absolutely 100% a status symbol company. Wealthy suburban moms get the Yukon XL, dad probably has a Sierra. On a sunny day, their collective chrome is blinding.
I'm just old enough that I still associate GMC with work trucks, so I'd call this the most successful and fastest brand repositioning of all time (looks at Taylor Swift) OF ALL TIME.
-
@ash78 Correct. The Dodge Sprinter and Freightliner Sprinter badging existed as Mercedes-Benz was too scared to associate a non-luxury product with its brand in America.
This is also why when Smart came to America, the first dealerships were either standalone or in a special dealer area segregated from MB-badged products. Of course, when sales tanked after just a single year, Smart USA quickly learned that standalone dealerships were unsustainable.
Mercedes-Benz also realized that buyers aren't stupid and figured out their vans are MBs and just wanted to buy the real deal. It's telling that when Mercedes finally selling the Sprinter with its own badge, it started outselling the Freightliner version.
Sadly, closing standalone Smart dealerships didn't save the brand in America...
-
@amoore100 GMC
God meant Chevy -
@Miss-Mercedes Right up my alley! One of my final business school projects around 2001 (I think it was a marketing class) was to do a 20-minute presentation on any "wild product launch" of my choosing -- to both pitch it and defend it. I chose SMART just as they were launching in
the USEurope (Edit: US was much later). Even though I kind of secretly knew that they couldn't succeed with solely the ForTwo AND trying to sell them all through bespoke dealers, it was fun nonetheless. When all the cool customization options never really materialized (like swappable colored body panels), and the Roaster and ForFour never made it here, I'm impressed they stuck around for as long as they did.That same year, I also remember writing a paper about how radar cruise control (relatively new on the S-class and very few others) would be the beginning of the end for driving skills, courtesy, safety, etc. I still don't think that's wrong. We just adapted -- no pun intended.
-
There is only one reason GMC exists. Brand loyalty. GM was too afraid that they would lose GMC customers to the other pickup.
You can't turn your back on a quarter million sales, even if many would go to chevy anyway.
They sold almost as many sierra's as Mazda sold across the entire brand for 2022.
-
@amoore100 I've been meaning to create a post for a while now revolving around "luxury trucks" and how they've actually been a thing since some of the very first trucks, but they definitely picked up in popularity in the mid 90's and arguably started with the Ford Eddie Bauer editions but that's for another time.
GMC in particular is a very interesting case, like you mentioned they paralleled Chevy from the beginning, offering similar trim levels but marketed as the more commercial oriented truck. I have no clue as to why this ever was or how they managed to survive in the early days but I think their commercial reputation was critical to their success. I also find it funny how for so many years, and even today honestly, GMC runs the gamut as both the commercial grade base model, and the highest trim pickup that GM offers.
As to why it worked, I can take a few guesses. As most people know, the Denali trim level was introduced in 1999 along side the Cadillac Escalade, in response to the 1998 Lincoln Navigator. The 1st generation Escalade was a bit of a cobbled together mess with some fancy trim and leather slapped onto an otherwise very truck based Tahoe, not exactly luxury vehicle material, but then so was the Yukon Denali. The difference though in my opinion, is that GMC buyers weren't expecting to buy a luxury vehicle, they were expecting a truck, and the Denali was just a very nice version of that truck. It's also been made clear with the failures of the Blackwook, Mark LT, and Escalade XT that while truck buyers want all of the luxuries, they don't want to be associated with the luxury brands. When 2000 rolled around it was likely very easy for GMC to apply the Denali treatment to the Sierra in addition to the Yukon while Cadillac further refined the Escalade. Obviously it was a success and has only grown from there. I think it worked because GMC was already conveniently right there and had the reputation of hard working trucks. Clearly it wasn't a failure for the other brands either, they just kept it in house with various trim packages.
Do I think it could work again? No*. Not in America anyway**. Truck buyers are incredibly loyal, we've all seen how much Toyota, Nissan and Honda have struggled to make meaningful dents in the truck market, and we all saw what happened with Lincoln and Cadillac. Any new truck brand is going to have a huge uphill battle just getting established, and associating with a luxury brand means certain death.
*Rivian has had some meaningful success here, but I suspect a lot of it comes from being electric and a bit different, I'm curious to see how they fair once the big three fully launch electric trucks. If they can get a strong foothold now there's a chance they can succeed, if not, well... we know how that story will go.
**I'm curiously watching Volkswagon and their launch of the Scout brand, a spiritual successor to the International Scout. Working with the Scout name is a strong move, but being owned by VW I think ultimately hurts them, Americanism at work. I know lots of VW dealers are pissed they aren't getting a shot to sell these things with VW setting up independent Scout dealers, but I think it's the right move. Selling the Scout alongside VW's is a sure fire way to kill the brand IMO.
-
@ash78 The first Smarts to be sold in America weren't officially distributed by Smart or Mercedes. Those cars were imported and converted to U.S. standards by third parties (ZAP, G&K) and then sold at third-party dealerships.
Mercedes-Benz had been planning to enter America for years but never officially began selling anything here until late 2007. In the earlier years, bringing the Roadster over was a part of the plan, and so was building a small SUV for our market (the Formore). Amazingly, Smart did pretty much all of the development on the Formore and even began tooling a plant...then completely ran out of money only weeks before go time. So, none of that came to fruition. Any Smart in the USA with a model year older than 2008 is not an official import. Canada did get them earlier than we did, though.
Anyway, the 2008s through 2015s do have easily swappable panels. In the early days, dealers did sell color change kits and owners used to have competitions with each other to see how quickly they could change their cars' colors. There used to be a thing where Smart owners would meet up with each other just to swap panels. lol I don't remember the fastest time, but I know some folks can get it done in 3 hours.
Technically, the 2016s through 2019s also have easy panel swaps, but Smart got lazy and stopped selling pre-painted panels.
-
Too bad they never sold the Australian utes over here. The Holden ute could've been sold as the GMC El Camino. It would be possible to avoid the stupid chicken tax with a CKD kit in assembled here or Mexico.
Rather than making Hummer a standalone brand, they should've called it GMC Hummer. At least they're finally doing that now with the Hummer EV, and wow GMC has a unique product!
The Avalanche should've also been a GMC.
GM is too stupid to sell the international Trailblazer over here. It's basically a Colorado wagon. If GM wants to use the Blazer name on shitty crossovers, then sell the international TB here as a GMC. Call it GMC Envoy or Jimmy, with a V8 model called Typhoon. Also put that V8 in the Canyon and call it Syclone
Also, International Harvester stopped selling SUV's just as they started getting popular.
@pip-bip said in What is GMC?:
@amoore100 GMC needs to be retired. should've happened back in '09 when GM went tits up.
They would have, but GMC has been profitable enough to keep going. GM mentioned this to the government.
It is a shame that it was more profitable than Pontiac and Saturn
@ash78 said in What is GMC?:
The Freightliner Sprinter, IIRC, was a deliberate attempt by Mercedes to simply rebadge the truck during the era when Mercedes was trying so so so hard to be taken seriously as "luxury only" in the US (not the worldwide "reliable taxi and work van" reputation). I think there was initially a chicken tax element to it, where the near-completed vans were sent to Freightliner and Dodge for final assembly. It's too early for my Google-Fu
The Sprinter cargo vans are shipped as CKD kits and assembled in SC. Passenger vans are shipped complete straight from Germany.
Same with the Metris. Cargo vans assembled from kits, passenger vans shipped from Germany.
It's too bad they never sold the V-Class/Viano over here. It would've been very successful, especially since even Kia can charge 60k for a Carnival
If people will pay 60k for a Kia, they'll pay 70-80k for a Mercedes minivan. The Viano's seats actually fold, unlike the Vito/Metris. It may be possible to import the folding seats from overseas
-
Here’s a list of what GMC could be.
Among them it could be
Green Mountain College
Gospel Music Channel ( can’t wait to see their ‘Yo Gospel Raps’ show)
Global Management Challenge (established 1980)
Giger-Muller Counter
OrGreat Muppet Caper
So that might answer your question, unless you’re trying to define the product design direction. I don’t know.
I didn’t read your post