Thread Number: 34648
GE Oven question 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 519641   5/22/2011 at 07:13 (4,738 days old) by drh4683 (Chicago western suburbs)        

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Im curious if the vent assembly on top of the GE Americana oven is a "bolt on" option? Reason Im asking is because its too high by 4.5" to fit under my kitchen cabinets with this right now. Can it be unbolted and will there be a finished coppertone top with a square duct in the back so I can simply attach it to my existing exhaust duct? I won't be able to see any of the details until next Friday when I pick this up, but just curious if I have any options here without having to modify the stove as that's something I won't do. I want to keep everything correct and looking original.

Thanks




Post# 519642 , Reply# 1   5/22/2011 at 07:34 (4,738 days old) by tlee618 ()        

Great find Doug, my mom had that very same range, coopertone and all. Yes the vent was an option and it was somehow bolted on. I can't remember just how but it should be easy to remove. As far a hooking it up to your present duct I am not sure.

Post# 519647 , Reply# 2   5/22/2011 at 08:16 (4,738 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

No, the duct connection is out of the hood because that contains the fan. The ventilation system was an integral part of the range. The top of the range has the openings on each side where the ducts from the cook top rise on each side of the upper oven. What would raise the height even more was if you put the charcoal filter on top of the hood for situations where the range could not be vented outside which means that GE did not intend the range to be used without the ventilation system. While it is beautiful and designed better than most hi-lo oven ranges, the back surface units cannot really be used for more than simmering and at that you will still have condensation on the adjacent surfaces with the vent hood operating. Boiling pasta on the front units, with or without the vent opened will result in steam condensing on the oven door. I had to change the cabinet over the stove to accommodate the height of this range. I think I replaced one that was 17" high with one that was 12" high.

When I had this stove, I found a much more efficient way to brown the ground meat for spaghetti sauce. I would form the meat into large burgers and place them on the broiler pan and broil each side until they were very dark. Then I put them in the Cuisinart and chopped them before adding the meat to the ingredients in the Westinghouse roaster oven. After it cooked a bit, I would ladle it into quart jars and use two 16 quart pressure canners (1 Mirro Matic and 1 Presto) to process 14 jars which used to last me almost a year. Pressure canning the sauce cut way down on the time it had to simmer and kept it from turning watery like when it is frozen.

Post# 519660 , Reply# 3   5/22/2011 at 09:15 (4,738 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        
Agree

 My parents have the Hotpoint variation in harvest gold in their 1972 condo. This unit was supplied by the builder. The overhead cabinets are about 12" high and seem to have been sized to accomodate the range.

It is vented to the outside and the large silver color panel at the top swings out as a sort of primitive "hood" to catch smoke/vapor from the cooktop. However, their unit also has vent intakes above the cooktop (bottom of upper oven) because there are those aluminum filters above the cooktop that pop out for cleaning (in the dishwasher).

The fan switch seems to control both the over-cooktop intakes and the swing-out intake at the very top---most likely one fan with two intake points. For anything more than simmering, the fan must be used. The unit still works well, except that the lower oven door is cracked. They still use it, with caution, but as they are empty nesters, the upper oven pretty much fulfills most of their needs. The self cleaning feature never really worked well so they've always manually cleaned both ovens.

Note: their neighbors, with the same floor plan, have a 30" electric range with no upper oven, and taller overhead cabinets with a hood mounted beneath them. My guess is that my parents opted for the two-oven unit as an upgrade (it was there from day one, they did not install it themselves after purchase) and that those who elected to have the upper-lower combination oven were given the shorter cabinets. This was a 300 home development, so most likely the cabinet company supplied the builder with short and standard height cabinets, depending on the option the customer chose (i.e. they didn't have to be custom built since some other buyers must have chosen the same oven option).

The original dishwasher was also gold. I don't remember the appliance color options, but the neighbors had avocado green appliances. Don't recall if white was an option.

Post# 519661 , Reply# 4   5/22/2011 at 09:17 (4,738 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        
ps

 The controls look identical to my parents' unit. There are two outlets, one controlled by a timer (which they never used) and one that is unswitched (always on). They were never ones for plug in counter top appliances, other than toasters, blendors, or coffee makers, so I doubt if either outlet was ever used for a skillet or griddle in the 39 years they've been in their condo.

Post# 519698 , Reply# 5   5/22/2011 at 11:40 (4,738 days old) by retropia ()        

I don't know anything about this unit, other than what other people here have posted. Based on that information and assumptions about your existing cabinet, it looks like these are all options:

- Disconnect and remove the top exhaust unit, and use the range without any exhaust. This wouldn't be my choice because I consider an exhaust to be a necessity, but it would be the easiest and least expensive way to fit this range under your existing cabinet.

- Have a cabinet shop reduce your existing over-range cabinet from 17" high to 12" high. I know you are loathe to alter the cabinet, but I'm thinking this would be the least expensive way to fit this range in your kitchen AND have an exhaust. This is probably the solution I'd choose if I really loved this range.

- Remove the top exhaust unit off the range, and have an HVAC company configure new ducting and a fan inside your existing 17" cabinet. You would lose the benefit of the that top duct "door" that runs along the front of the top, but you could still use the exhaust inlets under the top oven. You would need to cut a couple of new holes in your cabinet base to align with the ducts coming up behind the top oven. Inside the cabinet, the HVAC guy would need to run duct from those two holes into a collector box, and on top of that would be a new exhaust fan. Maybe a bath exhaust fan would work here? Then duct would go from the fan to your existing duct out of the top of the cabinet.

That would be the most expensive solution, I think, AND it wouldn't give you as effective an exhaust, AND you would probably lose most of your useable storage space in the cabinet. But it would allow you to use this range without cutting down the size of the cabinet, and give you some exhaust capability.

Maybe our experienced appliance people here will have ideas for other options, but that's all I can think of.


Post# 519775 , Reply# 6   5/22/2011 at 17:52 (4,737 days old) by drh4683 (Chicago western suburbs)        

drh4683's profile picture
Thanks for the comment so far, much appriciated. It actually wouldn't be the end of the world if I had to cut the cabinets to fit this range. Reason being, its already been done once before in my house when the previous owner installed an over oven mount microwave oven back in 1990. They chopped about 3" off the cabinets which also required relocating the bottom hinges on the upper cabinet doors, but they did do a decent job for the most part. They used a router on the doors to give them a nice beveled edge on the bottom cut so they match the others. I'd just hate to have this done again, but it would be the option I choose if I do decide to install this one in the kitchen. There are a few other options to consider, but I'll post that in another thread as my kitchen is rather unique. Its just a neat looking oven and its so clean. It'll really sharpen up the look in my kitchen. I guess I'll have to wait and see. The guy selling it said it works perfect too, he said the clock even kept accurate time so thats a nice bonus.

Post# 519794 , Reply# 7   5/22/2011 at 19:31 (4,737 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
GE AMERICANA RANGE VENTILATION SYSTEM

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 This stove had the ventilation system factory installed. It would be best to leave it in place if you can vent it to the outside and if you can cut the cabinets. That said they did offer the range without the VS and as I posted earlier you can remove it and use the range safely.. If you remove it the top is not finished however the top of the hood is not completely smooth and finished now.
Post# 519801 , Reply# 8   5/22/2011 at 19:50 (4,737 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Retropia:
You should have stopped after your first sentence. You state that you know nothing about this unit and then proceed to state your misunderstanding of the situation. You are like one of those news commentators who restates what has been said previously while adding no value except you gave removing the vent system as an option and it's not a safe option. If he did that and ever had a fire in his kitchen his insurance would tell him to go to hell because of the stove's modification to the vent system. Of course, he refuses to accept the facts about the stove so maybe he deserves your advice. All of this pissing and moaning over a $50.00 stove. If you want it, be prepared to pay to have cabinet modifications done or just leave it. You don't need us, you need the call in show from Sleepless in Seattle.

John, I believe the model without the vent system did not have the filter openings over the cooktop that allow the vapors to rise up both sides of the upper oven. I'll bet that model was fun to clean after any cooking. We have both seen how easily these stoves become a mess from doing any kind of heavy surface cooking even with the vent system.



This post was last edited 05/22/2011 at 20:09
Post# 519802 , Reply# 9   5/22/2011 at 19:59 (4,737 days old) by retropia ()        

Well, John said the top exhaust unit could be removed and I was basing my suggestion on his expertise. If the unit was originally sold without the top exhaust unit, then it stands to reason that it is possible to uninstall the exhaust unit from a range that has it.

Do you know for a fact that removing the exhaust unit is not an option?


Post# 519805 , Reply# 10   5/22/2011 at 20:13 (4,737 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Read the second paragraph of what I wrote. The area above the cooktop did not have the vent openings, nor did it have the fan switch and wiring that would prove this stove was altered. It was not the same model.

Post# 519809 , Reply# 11   5/22/2011 at 20:58 (4,737 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Damper determines where air is drwn from

 Here I have never heard about a venting issue with a stove like that I use every day; unless folks vist; or on this thread! :).



The top damper is opened to draw ONLY from the top; when it is closed it draws from the burner area.



Post# 519810 , Reply# 12   5/22/2011 at 21:03 (4,737 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
With the damper shut the unit draws from the burner area

 Vent in prior image is a standard 4x10" vent


If one by mistake has the top damper open; one WILL not draw any air from the two vents right above the burners. Having it slightly open draws from both areas.

This stove is a late 1971 Hotpoint RHV 886 an electtonic oven

Post# 519813 , Reply# 13   5/22/2011 at 21:18 (4,737 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        

Typically a vistor who uses the stove *tends* to open the top damper and thus the whatever they are cooking or burning sets off the beep beep beep smoke alarm.


Removing the vent would not really be a safety issue; more of downgrading the performance. Now one has no vent at all; like a cheaper stove.

Not having the damper in the correct position is common since everybody is an expert and nobody reads the manual! :)

With a sloppy vistor who gets food on a burner; no vent might be safer since the smoke alarm now goes off!

The actual squirel cage fan is right behind the top filter. It is about 10 inches in diameter and 3 inches deep. Here on mine one can see how the top fan section bolts on when one looks and feels with the filter removed.

The lessor GE model than yours is shorter; it has no fan vent unit. Removing yours might only have a safety issue if you add back no top; ie heat from the top oven.



Post# 519816 , Reply# 14   5/22/2011 at 21:34 (4,737 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        

It is not just making your cabinets less tall; one has a vent to plumb through the attic and to the outside through the roof. Here the 4x10 goes to the attic; then it is a round 6" duct that touches the through roof vent.

To move out the oven; here we purposely made the vent piping in sections; thus one lifts up the vent piece in the cabinet to allow the stove to be hauled out. ie we do not have to frog around in the hot attic; we made a sliding section just for the stove.



Post# 519830 , Reply# 15   5/22/2011 at 22:45 (4,737 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Brochure from other thread

 Better Ovens had the vent as part of the factory build to make it the better unit. A top off a lessor GE J782 or sister might be located if you want to remove your vent/fan. The basic chassis is about the same. The brochure really shows the vent/fan as a feature on better units; not like an option one elects to get.

There was also a gizmo that bolted on top of the fan/vent e better units as an option that returned the air back into the cooking area too. This makes the unit even taller.

Post# 519931 , Reply# 16   5/23/2011 at 10:42 (4,737 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        
@3beltwesty

Thanks for the explanation. My parents' Hotpoint range (home built 1972) is identical. The manual is long-gone, when you buy a new house with included appliances, you tend to lose the manuals in the flurry of paperwork that accompanies a house sale. We never used any of the timer functions because of the missing manual. They tend to hang on to the manuals when they upgrade or replace an appliance, but this oven came as part of a newly constructed home.

We were aware of the pull-out upper vent, but rarely used it. The vents under the upper oven (above cooking surfaces) seemed more logically placed, unless you plan to burn something in the upper oven. I was not aware that full deployment of the upper vent cuts off venting of the cooking surface vents, not did I realize that partial deployment of the upper vent still draws some air through the cooking surface vents. There is definitely only one fan switch for both of the vents.

What I do know is that about two years ago, I aggressively cleaned the oven inside and out for my folks, and part of that cleaning included inspecting and cleaning (in dishwasher) the vent filters. The two filters above the cooking surface had their share of grime, while the upper vent was nearly spotless---probably due to the fact that it was virtually never used. The coils and trim rings are original and still look ok.

As stated above, I recently visited the neighbors and noted they have a 30" standard electric range, with taller cabinets above range plus a hood. Since this was a 300 unit condo development, buyers must have been able to elect either of the two ovens (my guess is the double oven Hotpoint was at extra cost) and the cabinet maker then supplied either short or standard overhead cabinets to fit (the neighbors have the same model and same kitchen layout, in a reverse mirror of my parents' kitchen).

Other than at Thanksgiving or Christmas, my parents rarely used both ovens at once. I was in high school when they bought the condo (downsizing from "the big house"), mostly because their gardening crew (their kids) was about to ship off for college and they no longer needed all the room or the yard.

Within two years of purchase, they were empty nesters, and for most purposes the upper oven is all they need. Roasting a chicken, occasionally baking, etc. The upper oven is manual clean, the lower is self clean, but they distrusted the process of raising a heat shield and then locking the oven with the lever, so they never used the feature and always cleaned it manually. The smaller upper oven is easier to clean, anyway. Because the lower oven has a crack in the glass, they use it for warming functions but not at high temperatures (no one is sure how the crack gone there, whether it was trauma or high temperatures).

The range in their kitchen is original. In terms of dishwashers, the original was a matching Hotpoint that died only three years after installation. A replacement GE lasted about 24 years. Now they have a KitchenAid with about six years on it and doing well. They are also on frig #3. First was a side by side yellow Gibson. Replaced about ten years later by a GE side by side with dispenser door which soldiered on until about six years ago, and now they have a GE Profile side by side. First set of washers were Hotpoints, replaced about ten years later with GE's, now they've had a set of Maytags for about eight years (top loader).

Post# 519934 , Reply# 17   5/23/2011 at 10:45 (4,737 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        
I have a question

 Suppose someone had such an oven and it either stopped working or the owner wanted something more up to date? What would you use to replace it? Does anyone even make an integrated range with upper oven these days? My guess is that you'd have to use a 30" electric range, and possible an over the range microwave??? The cabinets are already the shortened kind, so adding a hood below the cabinets would be awkwardly (and probably ineffectively) too high above the range, me thinks.

Post# 519946 , Reply# 18   5/23/2011 at 12:11 (4,737 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        

Hello PassatDoc; gee I have no clues about what to replace a dual oven yet; have not really been shopping for any yet at all!



As far as the flow; here on mine the "air draw" is about zero when the top damper is fully open. There is not enough flow to hold a piece of tissue paper on a lower vent. It is like the flow is shut off.

As I mentioned earlier the fan can be seen when one removes the top vent's screen for cleaning. It might be that others have less flow due to dirty screens and or a longer more restricted venting to the outside. Ie a 45 degree elbow can be like the same pressure drop as 4 to 5 feet of straight section. Ours in a single story house; the stoves top to the roofline's vent is only about say 5 feet ; ie 1.5 feet to the attics floor; 3.5 feet to the vent.

Post# 520021 , Reply# 19   5/23/2011 at 16:33 (4,736 days old) by drh4683 (Chicago western suburbs)        

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Quote:

"Of course, he refuses to accept the facts about the stove so maybe he deserves your advice. All of this pissing and moaning over a $50.00 stove. If you want it, be prepared to pay to have cabinet modifications done or just leave it. You don't need us, you need the call in show from Sleepless in Seattle."



Who refuses to accept the facts about the stove? If that quote above was all directed at me, then you're mistaken. I don't really understand that accusation. You seem to have mistaken me as some kind of ignorant hack who doesn't follow proper and professional methods of installation or one who refuses to take good advice. I never modify equipment to make it "work" when it jeopardizes the safety and or operational integrity of the equipment. I simply was asking if the vent hood was a detachable option and if the stove would work SAFELY without it assuming the stove could be attached to the existing duct providing the exhaust fan was not in the top section. After seeing that the fan is obviously built into the top (vent) section, then I WOULD NOT remove it and I WOULD modify my cabinets to accommodate the stove so I could use it AS IT WAS ORIGINALLY INTENDED.

If you read above, I said I would cut my cabinets to accommodate this particular stove if I so desired as my cabinets are no longer "original" to begin with. So its not like I have this pristine all original kitchen that Im scared to modify.

Additionally, who exactly is pissing and moaning over this "$50 stove"? I'm here to seek input from those with the experience in working with these appliances and learn from the rest of you, so don't be so quick to assume that I don't take your thoughts and opinions into consideration.


Post# 520032 , Reply# 20   5/23/2011 at 17:28 (4,736 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        

As an owner of a similar stove; I can see no safety risks about removing the top 5 9/16 " top vent/fan section except basic duffus issues. It one cuts ones fingers on some sheet metal; you forget to cap off the old hot fan input wire and gets some sparks. Or one gets a hernia by moving a heavy stove. The unit here is only held on by about 4 to 6 sheet metal screws; the fan motor only has a hot, neutral and ground wire. The real question is does the lessor model like a J782 have a token piece of insulation.

Here with mine the biggest risk is a hernia, mine weighs over 400 Lbs. To side it out we rig up a come along.

The part about the 50 dollar stove is interesting; ours cost 1/2 what our brand new 1971 VW beetle cost. Thus on a car site one could say a mint 1971 VW beetle that costs 100 bucks used is just a 100 buck car.

What is rather interesting about this thread is that I never heard about this type stove having poor venting unless folks vist and the vent damper was set wrong.

A stove like this has a high current draw; thus a risk is in one has the input wiring too small. This can be OK if one has the lower circuit breaker to protect the wire. One just has a tripped/ blown breaker on Thanksgiving when all the oven is on at once!

Your oven has storage for pots and pans where mine has 68Lbs worth of Microwave stuff.

Post# 520038 , Reply# 21   5/23/2011 at 17:41 (4,736 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Here is one trying to get 300 for starters

 .

CLICK HERE TO GO TO 3beltwesty's LINK on Ventura Craigslist
Post# 520041 , Reply# 22   5/23/2011 at 17:49 (4,736 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Aqua one shown in 2008 link

 .

CLICK HERE TO GO TO 3beltwesty's LINK on eBay


Post# 520042 , Reply# 23   5/23/2011 at 17:54 (4,736 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
here is one asking/fishing for 449 bucks

 .

CLICK HERE TO GO TO 3beltwesty's LINK on Minneapolis Craigslist
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